Jesus Ordained Women, So We Should Too

Zack —  October 12, 2012 — 25 Comments

I have been waiting for the “right time” to post this.

To be honest, I’m not sure I knew what indicators I was looking for that would mark that moment, but after reading Desiring God‘s hatchet job of a review of Rachel Held Evans’ new book A Year of Biblical Womanhood, I thought now was as good as time as any.

In the review. Rachel’s critic attempts to make the case that Rachel’s literalist approach to the Bible wasn’t being faithful to what scripture “actually” says.

While that in and of itself is an incredibly ironic criticism, what I find particularly ironic about this reviewer’s critique, along the position held by so many that women should, effectively, be “silent in the church,” is the fact that if they had their way there would be no Christian faith to begin with.

To put it another way, if today’s so-called “complimentarian” churches had been around that first Easter morning, there would be no Church today.

How well do you remember the Easter story?

Or perhaps I should say, Easter stories, because if you look carefully there are differences in each gospel writer’s account, specifically in the number of people that came to check on the tomb that morning. But there is one fact that all the gospel writers agree on.

Women were there while the men cowered in fear behind locked doors.

There’s also another fact the gospel writers all agree on – when the women at the tomb realized Jesus had risen he gave them clear instructions to “go and tell.”

If you ask me, that sounds a whole lot Jesus’ other famous “great commission.” Except, when Jesus told the other disciples to “go” into all the world, they didn’t yet have the full gospel to preach.

It’s not until after the resurrection that the “good news” is ready to be proclaimed to the world and the first people commissioned by Jesus himself to go and preach this greatest of news were not men.

They were women.

If that’s not a ordination service happening that first Easter morning, then I don’t know what it is.

Now, I’m sure there are many of you who may be wanting to cry foul because this bestowal of authority doesn’t look exactly like the ordination service you’ve seen or, like me, the services you’ve been a part of.

Let me assure you that that’s ok because those services don’t look exactly like what Jesus did either. But that too is ok, because the fundamental issue at hand is still the same. Both for Jesus’ commissioning of his disciples and our ordination services today, ordination is fundamentally about the bestowal of authority.

This sort of bestowal is exactly what we witness at the empty tomb. If the resurrected Jesus thought only men should have this authority, then he just as easily could bypassed the women altogether, appeared first at the home where the disciples were hiding, then waited for the women to arrive panic stricken from finding an empty tomb, and then commissioned the men to explain what happened.

But Jesus intentionally met the women at the tomb and intentionally bestowed authority upon them to preach the gospel.

Now, let me pause to address two issues that some may see in my argument.

The first is in regards to the administration of the sacraments, namely baptism and the eucharist. This administrative authority is part and parcel to any modern ordination service, the idea being that we are echoing Jesus’ command, or bestowal of authority, to his disciples to perform these rituals. However, the formality we attend to such bestowal of authority is not found in the gospels. Jesus simply tells his followers to “go” and do likewise, much the same as he told the women at the tomb to “go” and tell.

If we are going to connect the administration of the sacraments to the authority to preach based on Jesus’ command to “go” and do, then there is nothing precluding us from extending that same connection to women whom he also explicitly called to “go” and do. Perhaps ironically, the justification for doing so is found is the second issue I anticipate being raised against my argument for the ordination of women: Jesus’ 12 disicples were all men.

It’s true that the 12 disciples specifically listed in the gospels were all men, but me must keep in mind that the gospels also 1) record Jesus sending out 70 apostles whose gender isn’t mentioned, 2) make it clear that Jesus also had female disciples, i.e. Mary and Martha, and 3) were written and edited by men with a profoundly patriarchal view of the world.

But none of those things captures what should be for us today the real issue at hand – after the resurrection everything changed because the world was being made new.

We live post-resurrection and therefore must take into account what Jesus said and did after he walked out of the tomb. In that post-resurrection world we see a Jesus who boldly ordains women to preach the good news to the very men he previously ordained, but who were now hiding in fear because they didn’t really understand what that good news was all about.

In other words, men dropped the ball, so Jesus handed it off to women.

The key point here is that merely relying on the pre-resurrection narrative as a justification for not ordaining women is to render both the event itself as well as the transforming power of the resurrection totally and completely irrelevant.

But there’s more.

Both Peter and Paul, yes even Paul, clearly supported this post-resurrection way of looking at the world.

Peter, for instance, had his famous vision in Acts wherein a sheet descended from heaven full of unclean food he was told to eat. When he refused, God reminded him that a new day had dawned and new rules were being put into place.

Later on, in his first epistle, after the ramifications of this new day had had more time to sink in, Peter reminds the church that through Jesus we are all members of a new, royal priesthood. Did you catch that? He said all. No gender usage there. He could have said all men, but he didn’t. That should tell us something.

Even Paul, the apparent champion of “complimentarianism,” actually had pretty radical views about post-resurrection identity and equality. As he puts it so beautifully in his epistle to the church in Galatia,

“So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Not exactly the words of a man convinced women had less standing in the church than men.

Now, yes, there are passages in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy wherein Paul talks about women not speaking or teaching in the church, but I have serious doubts about the all encompassing nature of these apparent commands to the church.

First, they appear to be very situationally specific, particularly in the case of the church in Corinth where female prophets were known to disrupt what were at that point in the church’s history essentially just small group gatherings in people’s homes and thus easily prone to disruption. Secondly, while the case could be made from the Timothy passage that the command is more broad based, it simply doesn’t jive with everything else Paul has to say about women in the church.

Paul is clear from both the Galatians passages as well as numerous other passages, that coming to Christ results in a fundamentally new identity which transcends all previous identity markers. Likewise, in every single one of his letters Paul is careful to thank specific women for their leadership in their local church. If Paul truly had no place for women in church leadership, then it would make no sense for him to go out of his way to thank them for taking on that very role of church leadership he supposedly prohibited. Which makes me come to the conclusion that either a) his words were intended for a specific situation or b) his words were not his own, but commands redacted later by followers uncomfortable with the thought of being led by a woman, or as Jesus would might say, they were uncomfortable with the last being first and the first being last.

Ultimately, though, there is a choice to be made between Paul and Jesus, between a literalist interpreation that seeks to limit the meaning of scripture to the letters on the page and a spiritual reading that the church has preferred for 2,000 which frees the Spirit to grant the people of God access into the deeper mysteries of God’s truth. This doesn’t mean we wholesale abandon everything in the Bible in favor of the “red letters of Jesus.” Far from it.

What it means is that we follow the ancient tradition of the church, admit that there are difficult and sometimes seemingly contradictory passages in scripture, and learn to recognize that, in the words of the great church father Origen, the difficulties that arise in the literal sense of the text have been placed there by the Holy Spirit to challenge us to dig deeper into the Spirit of the word, so that we can might in Wisdom, and so become the people God created us to be.

I know that there are many who will not agree with what my reading of scripture, but if the great reformers of the church were right, that there are moments in the life of the church when we much pause and ask ourselves whether or not what we are doing truly lines up with the teachings of Jesus or is simply our own cultural tradition, if that reflective work should be the ongoing responsibility of the church, then I believe the time has come for some serious and honest reflection about how the Body of Christ views and treats half of her members.

With that in mind I want to close with this though.

I am acutely aware that what I am saying flies in the face of what is for many nearly 2,000 years of church tradition.

But, if ordaining women to preach the gospel is wrong, then Jesus himself stands condemned.

 

Grace and peace,

Zack Hunt

 

Zack

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  • Jon

    I enjoyed reading your argument, but I feel like you may have missed the mark here a bit. You seem to be equating Commissioning with Ordination, but these are two separate things. Commisioning being for all believer’s in Christ, but Ordination being a specific handing down of Authority to lead the Church through the ages.

    No doubt, that the Timothy passage about being silent in church is about that specific church, and no doubt that woman are to play a strong and active role in ministry and spreading the Word of God, and no doubt that we are all created equal male and female, slave and free, rich and poor, we are all equal in Christ Jesus.

    This does not change what Jesus commanded as far as church leadership however, You mentioned briefly that Jesus’ disciples were all male. He had many followers of all ages and genders, but his inner circle was all male. This alone is a weak argument so I would say look even further. Check out Matthew 16:18, When Jesus commission’s Peter to lead his Church. As you know this is a three part blessing which is the same type of blessing found in Isaiah 22:22, and clearly, (despite many Protestant tantrums over the subject), bestows Christ’s Authority onto Peter to lead the Church. This Authority has been handed down through the Apostles to the Present Day. As you said below,

    “Secondly, while the case could be made from the Timothy passage that the command is more broad based, it simply doesn’t jive with everything else Paul has to say about women in the church.”

    This is exactly why we need the Apostolic Authority and Sacred Tradition, to help us through these problem areas. Look at the Church Fathers and see if there where any women priests/bishops in the early Church.

    Woman play a very important role in church, but we must differentiate between encouraging and commissioning them to teach and lead and be involved in the church, verses ordinating them to perform the sacraments. If that was what Jesus had commanded, it would have been seen in the early church, and maybe he would have given the keys to the kingdom to Mary Magdalene……But he didn’t.

    Love your Blog!

    • http://www.pamhogeweide.com/ pamhogeweide

      the 12 were not only male but were also jewish, and from Galilee. by this logic only jewish Galilean (fishermen?) ought to hold the keys to the kingdom.

      the other interesting thing is that perhaps the key to the kingdom you are speaking of is Jesus himself, or rather, the revelation of Jesus as God’s son. Is this not the rock or foundation that we place our faith and build our institutions?

      the other issue here with this argument that women must be differentiated from men in ordination is that it bans half the human race from being used, called, and gifted by the Holy Spirit based on girl parts. it also discounts the whole counsel of scripture where paul writes such bold statements like gal 3:28 there is no free, no slave, no male and no female…all are one in christ….and this is the same paul who honored women in their leadership in the early days of the church. he scolded peter.

      I am concerned that the filter of patriarchy colors the vision of so many in the church today (still!!!) that it is mistaken as biblical truth and God’s divine order. Patriarchy is an old spirit that has kept women on the back pews for more than 2000 years. The way the church treats women does not match how jesus and paul treated women.

      The day that women are able to find their place along side their brothers throughout the body of Christ is the day the powers of darkness will shriek in panic. It was a brilliant plan of the devil to keep half the body of Christ under wraps. it was brilliant then. It is brilliant still today, but it is my fervent hope and vision that the brilliance of liberty in the Spirit of Jesus will outshine that which keeps women in subjection to their brothers rather than in holy collaboration.

      that’s what i think, and i blog about this. A lot. I tweet about it. I facebook it and I even wrote a book about it. That’s how much this idea of women as the lesser sex agitates me.

      i’ll stop there before my comment here morphs into a blog post.

      (love your blog! love this post. first time commenter. totally gonna subscribe!)

      • ZackHunt

        “the 12 were not only male but were also jewish, and from Galilee. by this logic only jewish Galilean (fishermen?) ought to hold the keys to the kingdom.”

        That is BRILLIANT. Never thought about it that way before, but I LOVE it.

        • wjcsydney

          That the 12 were male and Jewish had to do with them being symbolic of the twelve tribes of Israel…

      • Karen

        Pam writes: “the other issue here with this argument that women must be differentiated from men in ordination is that it bans half the human race from being used, called, and gifted by the Holy Spirit based on girl parts.”

        Pam, unless you believe only ordained clergy can be gifted by the Holy Spirit and used of God as part of Christ’s Body in ministry (i.e., you subscribe to clericalism), this is a completely nonsensical statement. “God gave *some* [not all] to be pastors, teachers, apostles, . . . etc.” Remember 1 Corinthians 12? I must heartily disagree with you on this one.

        • Kristen Rosser

          Nevertheless, it does ban half the human race from being called to the ordained clergy– which does limit women in that they cannot be used of God in one entire vocation– and limits the clergy itself, in that its voice and perspective will and must always remain male only, without benefit of the female voice and perspective except what it may glean second-hand.

          • http://www.pamhogeweide.com/ pamhogeweide

            And that is the oppression of the perspective that limits women based on gender. I’ve written about this a lit at my blog for those who are interested in reading more pists from an egalitarian POV. Totally appreciate that Zach has wandered into this field!!!

          • Karen

            So, Pam, do you also see woman’s incapacity to impregnate another female as an oppressive limit? Do you see a male’s incapacity to bear a child as an oppressive limit upon men? (I suspect not.)

            In a similar way, I see God’s creation of man and woman as icons of Christ and the Church (and, thus, not simply interchangeable in certain liturgical symbolic contexts) as a joyful and freeing fulfillment and revelation of our destiny as human beings, not an oppressive limitation. But, then again, Orthodox view the office of the Presbytery’s iconic “Priesthood” somewhat differently than Roman Catholics do (see my comment below in reply to Jon) and certainly much differently than Protestants view the pastorate. That is, within Orthodoxy it is less an authority as power over others–which is a worldly understanding of “authority” according to Christ, anyway–than a revelation in symbol and “icon” form of the Truth of Who Christ is and does in relation to us as His Body/Bride. Truth, by its very nature has an intrinsic authority. But this authority does not belong to the Orthodox Bishop or Priest as a man, not even as an ordained man. No, it is Christ’s authority alone, which Christ exercises through the Presbytery as His icon and symbol, “sacramentally” (the more biblical and Orthodox term would actually be “mystically”) revealing and expressing the truth of Christ in the Church.

            In addition to what I stated below (in reply to Jon) about the iconic nature of the Orthodox Priesthood and Divine Liturgy, and which may be of interest because it demonstrates a difference in the Orthodox understanding of the nature of the Presbytery even from Roman Catholics, is that in the EO Church, the Divine Liturgy (the Eucharistic celebration) cannot be celebrated in the absence of the congregation. The presence of the congregation in Roman Catholicism, however, is *not* a requirement for the Eucharist to be considered “valid.” The Priest or Bishop in the Orthodox Church has no authority to celebrate the Eucharist without the presence of the whole gathered Royal Priesthood, whom he also represents. This may seem like an insignificant detail to some, but I am quite sure it has profound and far-reaching spiritual meaning and ramifications.

            Women’s voices are not silenced in the Orthodox Church. Though there are fewer of them on record, the Desert Mothers are every bit as authoritative as the Desert Fathers because they speak the truth of Christ from real experience of Him. Abbesses of women’s monasteries have just as much authority as an Abbott does in his men’s monastery, and this extends even to men, even ordained men (even Bishops) who visit or stay at the monastery! Women Saints are as highly honored as men Saints. Several of them are commemorated on significant Feast Days and seasons in the Church year. Not a few have the official appellation “Equal to the Apostles” because of their role (like the “Myrrhbearing Women” who were the first commissioned witnesses to Christ’s Resurrection) as pioneer missionaries of the gospel.
            In fact, the Saint who is highly honored above all other Saints (as far as the Moon is brighter than the stars!) is known to the EO as the Most Holy “Theotokos” (meaning “God-bearer”), Mary, the “Mother of God.” On the Orthodox “Iconostasis” (Icon screen in front of the Nave, the worship space where the congregation stands), she is the one who sits at the right hand of Christ in His Icon as Ruler and Judge of all. Mary is also the consummate symbol of the entire Church, and everything said about her in the Orthodox tradition is also understood to be true of the Church as a whole.

            It is tragic, that given the fallenness of humanity, our understanding of the iconic nature of man and woman, both in the image of God, but distinct in their imaging of Christ and the Church, God and His Creation, has been lost, and instead a worldly understanding of the Presbytery’s authority has prevailed, not only in Roman Catholic and Protestant circles, but also in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Especially in the Middle East, the cradle of the Church and of Orthodoxy, the Orthodox under oppression from Islam for so many centuries are often found to have adopted many of the attitudes of Islam, and, consequently, Orthodox women and wives are, indeed, often forced into subservient roles vis-a-vis their husbands and fathers even in the Church, and indeed can be oppressed. This is not intrinsic to Orthodox Christian faith, however, but quite diametrically opposed to its spirit. Fortunately, the true spirit of Orthodoxy can still be seen in her holiest members (of which there are some even in the Middle East!).

          • http://www.pamhogeweide.com/ pamhogeweide

            I am baffled how folks in this discussion are responding to my views with such strands of thought!

            I think I understood most of your comment here,though I am quite unfamiliar with the distinctives of the EO church and barely familiar with those of the Catholic church. My history lies more in the vein of evangelicalism and the charismatic movement.

            From your conclusion, though, it looks that we both possess the same POV in that patriarchy long ago infiltrated the church and has been mistaken as representative of God’s mandate for gender roles. Biblical cultures were patriarchal, but I contend that God is not patriarchal nor destined humankind to be patriarchal.

            Come browse around my blog sometime. There might be some topics there you’d be interested in discussing. Open invite anytime!

          • Karen

            Thanks, Pam. I’m sure there are areas where we would agree and areas where we would disagree. Where we might disagree is that ordination to the Orthodox Priesthood/Presbytery ought to be for women, too, and that it is inherently oppressive and “patriarchal” if it isn’t. I believe that is not true, and I tried to explain that in my comment above. However, that the Presbytery has come to be understood as an “authority” or “power” in a worldly sense by many in Christendom throughout history is most certainly true and contrary to the Spirit of Christ, Who, though Lord of all, made Himself to be the Servant of all.

          • Karen

            I also should explain that I have been an Eastern Orthodox Christian for more than five years now (and intently studying it for some years before that), but before that I was Evangelical for decades and even went to the mission field short term with the Assemblies of God as a young adult (so I do understand a bit of where you’re coming from). I, too, had virtually no understanding of the EO tradition when I was Protestant and many misunderstandings of Roman Catholicism and Church history in general. This was the result, I realize now, of the propaganda of the polemics of the Protestant Reformation and Roman Catholic Counter Reformation. That propaganda has led to many distortions of both the Christian faith and Church history in modern Christendom today.

        • http://www.pamhogeweide.com/ pamhogeweide

          I do not subscribe to “clericalism.” I’m mystified that you took my comment that way, but such is the limitation of online discussion.

          My point is that gender neither qualifies nor disqualifies a human being from being endowed with whatever gift or calling the Creator would give.

    • ZackHunt

      Hey Jon, thanks for sharing!

      You’re right that I do equate commissioning with ordination. I fully understand the difference we make between the two today, I’m just not convinced that hair splitting makes in sense in the context of the gospels or Peter’s talk of (what Luther called) the priesthood of all believers.

      This won’t come as any surprise, but I obviously disagree with the whole notion of Jesus giving Peter the keys to the kingdom. I love my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters (and father-in-law!) deeply, but for me that is a profound misreading of Jesus, used to support a tradition of papal authority that was absolutely non-existent in the early church. Again, I love my Roman Catholic friends, but the historical evidence for Petrine succession of authority isn’t there. For me, and obviously every Christian who isn’t Roman Catholic, Jesus built his church on the rock solid (pun intended) confession “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God,” not on the man Peter.

      Likewise, I don’t think we can point to the early church as the emblematic examples of putting Jesus’ teachings into practice. After all, the period of the early church gave rise to the greatest heresies the church has ever known. :)

      That being said, I genuinely appreciate your feedback. These sorts of conversations are very important to have.

      • Jon

        Thanks for a response Zack. I was interested to read about the church fathers and the heresies in the first century. I know there were tons of heresies that sprouted, some of which are even seen in the New Testsment. The Church authority and combating of heresies by the likes of Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, and Polycarp, was one of the things that impressed on me so much during my examination of the Catholic Faith. The ignoring of these fathers and the church history by evangelicalism and the then discovery it for myself really fueled my conversion. You know some of the biggest heresies (trinitarian/christology heresies, Arianism, Macedonians) where staunchly opposed by these early Catholic Bishops which led to the early Church Councils giving us things like the Nicene creed.

        Also, it seems like the “priesthood of all believers” and a focus on individualism is what has not just allowed but fueled all of the bizarre things you blog about!

        As Martin Luther later said,
        “There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.”

        • Karen

          Jon, thanks for your comments. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I find some significant common ground in perspective with you here.

          That said, for Zack, I must clarify that I am *not* a complementarian in the Protestant Evangelical sense). From an Eastern Orthodox perspective, both the complementarian and egalitarian views of modern Evangelicalism miss the mark in some similar ways (for one thing, by inappropriately extrapolating from the liturgical context into the secular, and vice-versa). Also, I suspect the problems created by both views when looking at Scripture arise for both sides largely from relying on the historical-critical method of biblical interpretation and some anachronistic readings of both Scripture and history, rather than on a consistent consensus of received tradition of interpretation handed down through the centuries within the Church–the living community that gave birth to the Scriptures and in which context alone they can be fully understood.
          From an Eastern Orthodox perspective, I believe it would be accurate to say that the key to understanding the distinctions made in the *liturgical/sacramental* roles of men and women in the gathering of the Church for worship (and also for understanding why biblical marriage is a spiritual reality that can only be between one man and one woman) is to know what it means that man is an Icon of God/Christ, and woman is an Icon of the Creation/Church. It is also necessary to understand that the Divine Liturgy (the order of the Sunday AM service of the Eucharist in the Eastern Orthodox tradition) is an Icon of the whole economy of our salvation in Christ. So in his liturgical/sacramental role, the bishop/presbyter is an Icon of Christ while the whole congregation (the laity, both men and women) are an Icon of the Church. As an Orthodox, I understand this as something God has written into the very fabric of our sexuality, a way in which the Creation speaks unfailingly of the mystery of the unity that is possible between created human beings and the transcendent God Who is wholly Other, and yet Who has in a “mystery”, in the Incarnation of Christ, lovingly condescended in the Person of the Son to take on something in common with us (humanity) in order that we may be united with Him in the ecstasy of the Love that has flowed from eternity between the members of the Holy Trinity. As St. Paul says speaking of Christ and the Church in Ephesians 5, this is a great mystery. It is something that can only be spiritually discerned, and human intellectual logical constructs based on historical-critical interpretations of Scripture won’t quite get you there.

  • http://www.thechurchofnopeople.com Matt @ The Church of No People

    I read the same review you did, Zack. Hatchet job is right. I found myself stunned at the contrast between Rachel’s attempt at a fresh look at scripture, and the tired, insufficient evangelical retort. Rachel’s interpretation of scripture may not be perfect, because whose is – but the contrast between them was so vast, it was stunning.

    • ZackHunt

      I’m still in shock that they had the audacity to pawn that off as a book review. It wasn’t a review. It was a polemic. It’s fine to write a polemic, but if integrity is of any consequence to them, they should be upfront about what they’re doing.

  • Pam

    Desiring God’s review is in no way a hatchet job. It’s respectfully written and offers sound support from Scripture. Why the attack just because you disagree?

    • ZackHunt

      “Why the attack just because you disagree?”

      That would be my question for the folks as Desiring God. Their review was a hatchet job because it wasn’t a review. Real book reviews aren’t a tangent against somebody else’s theology. That’s all their “review” was. It would be like me writing a review on a Buddhist’s book and “critiquing” them simply because they were Buddhist. That’s exactly what they did. You’re obviously free to agree with Desiring God, but in no professional sense of the word was that a review. It was, like I said before, a polemic.

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  • http://thehomespunlife.com Sisterlisa

    I appreciate this, Zach. Thank you. The ‘review’ at Desiring God is like many other ‘reviews’ out there. It’s simply an attack. I find it sad that the writer couldn’t find any value in Rachel’s experience. Rachel grew spiritually due to that year long experiment and I applaud her for having the diligence to follow through for an entire 12 months. Additionally, I think it’s cowardly of them to not allow comments on their ‘review’. Their crack about Rachel speaking to Rabbis about her questions is hilarious. Christians claim they follow the OT God, yet refuse to talk to the people who are experts on the Torah. The writer apparently discounts Rabbis because they’re ..well..Rabbis, just as they discount Rachel. Honestly, ‘Desiring God’ and their clan’s opinions about the bible are not the ultimate authority on God. Funny how each denomination claims to have the stamp of approval on what ‘proper interpretation of scripture’ is.

  • Gil T

    This is a review is a necessary contribution to a the dialog, ironically, on the silence of our sisters.

    There do not appear to be any major revelations. This is not a problem nor do I say it disparagingly. The fact that we continue to hear the same, obvious points for and against ours sisters fulfilling their role in the royal priesthood makes it much too easy for the entrenched to remain entrenched. As long as we continue to view this as a matter of gender, of Jesus sending Mary “go and tell” we reveal we ourselves have not looked beyond what others have seen and used as though it were there own power.

    Interestingly enough, the grandest breakthrough came from Paul’s mission to dethrone the female goddess Artemis whom the saints all but completely ignore.

  • daryl carpenter

    I’m very wary when people start saying we should take the bible more ‘metaphorically.’ Quite often this is code for ‘getting rid of the bits that are embarrassing to modern ears, but hopefully still preserving the credibility of the bible.’ It’s good to treat the chauvinistic parts of the bible as the culture of the time. Great. You’ll get no complaint from me. But what’s stopping someone else getting rid of all the supernaturalism in the bible using the same argument? Those presuppositions, too, seem to belong to a bygone age. Most Christians don’t want to do this, however. And you’re right. Origen did favour a metaphorical reading for some things in the bible. But then again, he also reportedly cut off his own balls after reading Matthew 19:12. Why that command was to be taken literally and others not is anyone’s guess. But I still have a soft spot for the old heretic… ps Of course women should be ordained. This is the 21st century, for goodness sake.

  • Kristen Rosser

    Zack, I read this with great interest. Thank you for standing up for Ms. Evans’ right to write the book she wants to write without being attacked just for holding the positions she holds.

    With regards to this: “If the resurrected Jesus thought only men should have this authority, then he just as easily could bypassed the women altogether, appeared first at the home where the disciples were hiding, then waited for the women to arrive panic stricken from finding an empty tomb, and then commissioned the men to explain what happened.”

    I would say that what Jesus actually did was even more radical than what you are stating. Not all of the male disciples remained hiding behind closed doors. The Book of John states that Mary Magdalene, on finding the empty tomb, went to Peter and John, and that they ran out to the tomb, found that Mary was right and it was empty, and went home. And then is when Jesus appeared to Mary. In short, Jesus deliberately waited until after Peter and John had left, refusing to show Himself to them until after He had shown Himself to Mary! Peter and John are known as Jesus’ two top disciples– while Mary is often dismissed as an ex-prostitute who followed Jesus– even though there is no textual backing whatsoever supporting her ever having been a prostitute.

    What I see here is a quite deliberate upsetting of the patriarchal apple cart by our Savior, and that it would have appeared as such to them. The testimony of women was considered untrustworthy and was not accepted in courts of the day. What other message could Jesus have been sending the male disciples than this: “The world will not accept the testimony of women, but I have just forced you to accept it. My church is to be different from the world. You are to listen to your sisters, My female disciples, and accept their testimony just as you would that of a man.” This is why, while the Roman guards didn’t bother arresting any women before the Crucifixion, the persecuting Saul began dragging both men and women off to prison. It was because all of a sudden, the women had become as dangerous as the men– because the women were preaching and teaching about Christ.

    Later, as church meetings stopped being held privately in homes (which was women’s cultural sphere), house churches led by women like Nympha, Chloe and Lydia became superseded by public meetings– and “the woman question” became an embarrassment. It was then that the Church began to take an official position against women in leadership and began to teach against it– and why would they have needed to if it had never existed? All this has recently began coming to light in historical research.

    As for “ordination,” I can find no support for it actually existing in earliest church times at all.

    • daryl carpenter

      Hi Kirsten

      It’s interesting what you said about the resurrection in the gospel of John. I was reading the gospel of mark and it finishes with the women running away from the tomb and not doing what they’re told (the oldest manuscripts of mark end at 16:8). In this gospel the woman are as equally clueless as the boneheaded disciples in understanding Jesus and his message. So perhaps mark was here cleverly depicting the equality of the sexes? It’s possible.